DNA-R1B1C7-L ArchivesArchiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-04 > 1239323216
Subject: [R-M222] Walk on the Y tests
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:26:56 EDT
We now have two M222 people who will be ordering the Walk on the Y test
search for new SNPS.
The first is one of the Megonnigil or variant surnames in the M222
project. The second is a Mannion ( Kit137003 - M222 Project.
I know the Mannion sample is from Ireland (Connacht). The location is not
far from Roscommon but possibly in Galway. I don't think the Megonnigils
know exactly where they're from but McGonigal and variants are common to
For what it's worth, Mannion in Ireland (O'Mannin, O'Mannion) is an Ui
Maine surname from Galway. But generally regarded as descended from the
pre-Gaelic Sodhan (or Soghan) race (MacLysaght). O'Rahilly said much the same
The O'Loughin book of surnames has this to say:
"A prominent family of the Ui Maine territory, it is said they descend
most anciently from the Picts, a people who resided in Ireland before the
coming of the Celts and Milesians."
This analysis is much entangled with O'Rahilly's theories that Q-Celtic
gaelic first came to Ireland with the Milesians.
The Ireland in Maps site say this:
"According to the "Book of Lecan" the Sogain were descended from Sodain
(Soghan Sal-bhuidhe), the son of Fiachra Araidh, King of Ulster about 240 AD.
It would appear that they came to Galway about the 3rd century as they
were well established there by St. Patrick's time. They occupied an area
which, according to the Book of Uí Máine, stretched from the river Clare in the
west to the river Suck in the east and from the river Shivern in the north
to the Raford river in the south. This area was known as Mag Sencheineoil,
or the plain of the old inhabitants.
Onomasticon Goedelicum cites that the Ui Echach Coba, Ui Meith Macha and
Conaille Murthemne are of the same stock as Sogain. They were members of
Clann Conaill Cernaich, i.e. Dál n-Araide & Úi Echach Ulad & Conaille
Murthemni & Laígsi Laigen & na secht Sogain. "
I found the reference to Fiachra Araidh interesting. He was the founder
of the Dal nAraidhi of Ulster, one of the few tribes in Ireland considered
Cruithin by the annalists. But the main modern representative of that line
in Ireland is Maguinness, who are mostly I haplogroup. There are however in
the Trinity spreadsheet quite a few R1b Maguinness samples from Ulster who
appear to be M222 as far as can be discerned at 12 markers. That's always
been a puzzle to me since NE Ulster does not appear to be a current
hotspot of M222 in Ireland.
In this context though bear in mind a lot of Irish pedigrees are fakes.
The O'Loughlins of Burren in Clare have a pedigree from Ir (mostly found in
the old Red Branch territory of Ulster) but by DNA match the O'Briens of
Thomond in Munster.
I don't find it inconceivable that M222 is descended from some kind of
Cruithin stock. Or what the Irish annalists called Cruithin. It's basically
the same thing as the Scottish Pict designation. And we certainly find a
lot of Picts in early records in Scotland. In fact Pict may ultimately
simply have been a designation for the oldest inhabitants of Britain, Ireland
and Scotland as a whole. Cruithin is derived from the same root as Pretani,
the name of the oldest Greek geographers for the entire British Isles.
Which later evolved into Brittania or Britain.
Pat Tagart has set up a special L21 Walk on the Y project at FTDNA to
co-ordinate the tests. The testees will be listed as in any other project, by
Kit Number. The STRS will be shown.
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